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	<title>Comments on: A 4-Point Plan to Traffic Harmony</title>
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		<title>By: Go Up Strong! &#124; 7Wins.eu</title>
		<link>http://www.cdrum.com/2008/02/19/a-4-point-plan-to-traffic-harmony/comment-page-1/#comment-7414</link>
		<dc:creator>Go Up Strong! &#124; 7Wins.eu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:53:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cdrum.com/2008/02/19/a-4-point-plan-to-traffic-harmony/#comment-7414</guid>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] can&#8217;t pay for your bills, but is good political currencyCoffeeSwirls » The Bald Games DudeChris Drumgoole Â» A 4-Point Plan to Traffic Harmony   Tags basketball dunk basketball drill drill vertical vertical jump jump soccer football    This [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.cdrum.com/2008/02/19/a-4-point-plan-to-traffic-harmony/comment-page-1/#comment-5891</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 08:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cdrum.com/2008/02/19/a-4-point-plan-to-traffic-harmony/#comment-5891</guid>
		<description>Wow, Darius, thanks for the detailed comment!  Regarding the fuel subsidies, is it public knowledge what percentage is subsidized by the gov? And is it centrally subsidized, or at a provincial level?

They probably need to have a staged approach at removing the subsidies, - depending on how much is actually subsidized, create a short term (2 years or so) plan of slowly chipping away at the subsidies until poof. Gone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, Darius, thanks for the detailed comment!  Regarding the fuel subsidies, is it public knowledge what percentage is subsidized by the gov? And is it centrally subsidized, or at a provincial level?</p>
<p>They probably need to have a staged approach at removing the subsidies, &#8211; depending on how much is actually subsidized, create a short term (2 years or so) plan of slowly chipping away at the subsidies until poof. Gone.</p>
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		<title>By: Darius</title>
		<link>http://www.cdrum.com/2008/02/19/a-4-point-plan-to-traffic-harmony/comment-page-1/#comment-5889</link>
		<dc:creator>Darius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 08:38:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cdrum.com/2008/02/19/a-4-point-plan-to-traffic-harmony/#comment-5889</guid>
		<description>PS. It may sound like I&#039;m down on the chinese transport planning. But I could go through the same litany for the US. You and I just have the benefit of hindsight unfettered by language barriers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS. It may sound like I&#8217;m down on the chinese transport planning. But I could go through the same litany for the US. You and I just have the benefit of hindsight unfettered by language barriers.</p>
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		<title>By: Darius</title>
		<link>http://www.cdrum.com/2008/02/19/a-4-point-plan-to-traffic-harmony/comment-page-1/#comment-5888</link>
		<dc:creator>Darius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 08:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cdrum.com/2008/02/19/a-4-point-plan-to-traffic-harmony/#comment-5888</guid>
		<description>Hey Chris!

You&#039;re thinking in a good direction! I mostly agree with you, although I think there are other less imaginitive low-hanging fruit. (Like designing things right the first time?)

Re: your suggestions: I can tell you what the status is for each of these!

   1. Curb Auto-sales by instituting a license plate quota system
The national policy is actually to promote car sales, with the policy goal of economic development. (&quot;One Car per Family Policy&quot;) Thus, from a purely policy perspective, license-quota system is a no-go in Beijing, which is under direct scrutiny of the party leaders.

However, Shanghai does this. They even public state that their policies are inspired by Singapore. Their policies seem effective. But recently they have grown complacent; relaxed policies; allowed veh. population growth.

   2. Introduce Congestion Zones
Highly theoretical, but with some support. My department (and probably other ministries) are studying international best practices, and will be observing the effectivess of different measures during the Olympics. 

Heh. that makes me sound important. (I&#039;m actually a level-5 peon.) My strategy here would actually be to forget the studies, and try to get politicians from those successful cities to come here to talk to the politicians here, about HOW congestion charging can actually be &#039;popular&#039;.

   3. Introduce Public Light Buses
Yeah. You&#039;ve touched on the issues of our highly regimented views as to what IS transit. Buses in the west are so big because the DRIVER is actually the largest cost component; size is marginally cheap and service quality is not a driver even in the few cases where there is competition. And even on the edges where it MIGHT make sense, the market isn&#039;t large enough to bring the cost of a bus down for budget-strapped agencies. (A small bus costs ~ $750,000, a large bus ~ $1,250,000 )

There COULD be a strong market here. But .. that will require some imagination on the part of someone in charge.

   4. Introduce Carpool Lanes
This has been studied. Once. For Chang&#039;an blvd. 

Related: There does seem to be a very strong commuter carpooling culture, anyways (like the US in the 60&#039;s?). The Beijing Committee in charge of these things looks the other way, because it&#039;s technically illegal to exchange money.

   5. remove fuel subsidies
China NEEDS to do this. On this subject I am also in the peanut gallery, but WHOLY CRAP was this a bad idea.


While I know some stuff about... stuff, I don&#039;t really think about it much.  The big picture for me is CO2, rather than pollution or traffic.

Point to ponder:
The chinese are projected to buy 100 million new cars in the next 12 years (locally, will double beijing&#039;s 3 million). 

I can think of a few ways to meaningfully affect that statistic ( fun ways! in the near term! ), and I have a few really interesting studies. If anybody&#039;s interested I&#039;m happy to chat.

Darius

darius.roberts@every-body&#039;s-favorite-google-mail-application.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Chris!</p>
<p>You&#8217;re thinking in a good direction! I mostly agree with you, although I think there are other less imaginitive low-hanging fruit. (Like designing things right the first time?)</p>
<p>Re: your suggestions: I can tell you what the status is for each of these!</p>
<p>   1. Curb Auto-sales by instituting a license plate quota system<br />
The national policy is actually to promote car sales, with the policy goal of economic development. (&#8220;One Car per Family Policy&#8221;) Thus, from a purely policy perspective, license-quota system is a no-go in Beijing, which is under direct scrutiny of the party leaders.</p>
<p>However, Shanghai does this. They even public state that their policies are inspired by Singapore. Their policies seem effective. But recently they have grown complacent; relaxed policies; allowed veh. population growth.</p>
<p>   2. Introduce Congestion Zones<br />
Highly theoretical, but with some support. My department (and probably other ministries) are studying international best practices, and will be observing the effectivess of different measures during the Olympics. </p>
<p>Heh. that makes me sound important. (I&#8217;m actually a level-5 peon.) My strategy here would actually be to forget the studies, and try to get politicians from those successful cities to come here to talk to the politicians here, about HOW congestion charging can actually be &#8216;popular&#8217;.</p>
<p>   3. Introduce Public Light Buses<br />
Yeah. You&#8217;ve touched on the issues of our highly regimented views as to what IS transit. Buses in the west are so big because the DRIVER is actually the largest cost component; size is marginally cheap and service quality is not a driver even in the few cases where there is competition. And even on the edges where it MIGHT make sense, the market isn&#8217;t large enough to bring the cost of a bus down for budget-strapped agencies. (A small bus costs ~ $750,000, a large bus ~ $1,250,000 )</p>
<p>There COULD be a strong market here. But .. that will require some imagination on the part of someone in charge.</p>
<p>   4. Introduce Carpool Lanes<br />
This has been studied. Once. For Chang&#8217;an blvd. </p>
<p>Related: There does seem to be a very strong commuter carpooling culture, anyways (like the US in the 60&#8242;s?). The Beijing Committee in charge of these things looks the other way, because it&#8217;s technically illegal to exchange money.</p>
<p>   5. remove fuel subsidies<br />
China NEEDS to do this. On this subject I am also in the peanut gallery, but WHOLY CRAP was this a bad idea.</p>
<p>While I know some stuff about&#8230; stuff, I don&#8217;t really think about it much.  The big picture for me is CO2, rather than pollution or traffic.</p>
<p>Point to ponder:<br />
The chinese are projected to buy 100 million new cars in the next 12 years (locally, will double beijing&#8217;s 3 million). </p>
<p>I can think of a few ways to meaningfully affect that statistic ( fun ways! in the near term! ), and I have a few really interesting studies. If anybody&#8217;s interested I&#8217;m happy to chat.</p>
<p>Darius</p>
<p>darius.roberts@every-body&#8217;s-favorite-google-mail-application.com</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.cdrum.com/2008/02/19/a-4-point-plan-to-traffic-harmony/comment-page-1/#comment-5844</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cdrum.com/2008/02/19/a-4-point-plan-to-traffic-harmony/#comment-5844</guid>
		<description>Thanks guys for yours comments!

John, good point about the light buses potentially being a hard sale, but I think it&#039;s simply a matter of guanxi.

Melanie, True true - but in order for people to follow the rules, the police need to do their jobs better.  Beijing already has a decent automated traffic camera system, but they need to up the sensitivity, like an airport metal detector.. if you know what I mean...

Ben, I haven&#039;t spoken to Darius about traffic stuff, next time I see him, I&#039;ll be sure to.  Regarding pollution, I do think so - but, 3 needs to work in conjunction with #2 (the conjestion zone fees) and an overall de-subsidization of fuel - the government is subsidizing fuel costs quite a lot - I&#039;ve heard figures that go up to 50% of fuel is subsidized.  If the remove that, that&#039;s going to hit people where it matters most - the bank account.  All the sudden, your car consumption costs go up 100%.  That&#039;s a big big jump for the average new driver.  And you&#039;re right, car pool lanes will be hard to police, not to mention educating people about them...

Chris, True, I&#039;ve seen the private ones too.  First, get rid of the private ones. They are death traps, and probably don&#039;t pay any tax on income.  The gov. needs to take a firm stance on this stuff.  The great thing about the &quot;light buses&quot; in HK is there is no way you could fit more than 18 people in them!  There&#039;s no standing room even..  They are faster at accelerating - for instance, when they get going after picking up/dropping people.  That&#039;s a big problem with these big buses on the ring roads...  

Some of the ideas presented in this comment, i.e. removing the fuel subsidies, will probably cause people to revolt.. to it probably needs to be a controlled removal.  Also, any public transportation, i.e. buses, taxis, should still have the subsidies for obvious reasons (I for one wouldn&#039;t want to see the taxi fee go up to 4RMB/Km!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks guys for yours comments!</p>
<p>John, good point about the light buses potentially being a hard sale, but I think it&#8217;s simply a matter of guanxi.</p>
<p>Melanie, True true &#8211; but in order for people to follow the rules, the police need to do their jobs better.  Beijing already has a decent automated traffic camera system, but they need to up the sensitivity, like an airport metal detector.. if you know what I mean&#8230;</p>
<p>Ben, I haven&#8217;t spoken to Darius about traffic stuff, next time I see him, I&#8217;ll be sure to.  Regarding pollution, I do think so &#8211; but, 3 needs to work in conjunction with #2 (the conjestion zone fees) and an overall de-subsidization of fuel &#8211; the government is subsidizing fuel costs quite a lot &#8211; I&#8217;ve heard figures that go up to 50% of fuel is subsidized.  If the remove that, that&#8217;s going to hit people where it matters most &#8211; the bank account.  All the sudden, your car consumption costs go up 100%.  That&#8217;s a big big jump for the average new driver.  And you&#8217;re right, car pool lanes will be hard to police, not to mention educating people about them&#8230;</p>
<p>Chris, True, I&#8217;ve seen the private ones too.  First, get rid of the private ones. They are death traps, and probably don&#8217;t pay any tax on income.  The gov. needs to take a firm stance on this stuff.  The great thing about the &#8220;light buses&#8221; in HK is there is no way you could fit more than 18 people in them!  There&#8217;s no standing room even..  They are faster at accelerating &#8211; for instance, when they get going after picking up/dropping people.  That&#8217;s a big problem with these big buses on the ring roads&#8230;  </p>
<p>Some of the ideas presented in this comment, i.e. removing the fuel subsidies, will probably cause people to revolt.. to it probably needs to be a controlled removal.  Also, any public transportation, i.e. buses, taxis, should still have the subsidies for obvious reasons (I for one wouldn&#8217;t want to see the taxi fee go up to 4RMB/Km!)</p>
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		<title>By: chriswaugh_bj</title>
		<link>http://www.cdrum.com/2008/02/19/a-4-point-plan-to-traffic-harmony/comment-page-1/#comment-5837</link>
		<dc:creator>chriswaugh_bj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 04:03:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cdrum.com/2008/02/19/a-4-point-plan-to-traffic-harmony/#comment-5837</guid>
		<description>I have seen light buses on Beijing streets. The problem is, of course, that they observe no limit on passenger numbers, and the privately-owned ones are generally very old, run down claptraps held together by cobwebs and the Boddhisattva Guanyin which cruise very slowly up the side of the road with one guy hanging out what&#039;s left of the door calling for passengers. The company-owned light buses never really went any faster than regular buses. Nice idea, but based on Beijing&#039;s past performance, I don&#039;t see it working out too well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have seen light buses on Beijing streets. The problem is, of course, that they observe no limit on passenger numbers, and the privately-owned ones are generally very old, run down claptraps held together by cobwebs and the Boddhisattva Guanyin which cruise very slowly up the side of the road with one guy hanging out what&#8217;s left of the door calling for passengers. The company-owned light buses never really went any faster than regular buses. Nice idea, but based on Beijing&#8217;s past performance, I don&#8217;t see it working out too well.</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin</title>
		<link>http://www.cdrum.com/2008/02/19/a-4-point-plan-to-traffic-harmony/comment-page-1/#comment-5835</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 01:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cdrum.com/2008/02/19/a-4-point-plan-to-traffic-harmony/#comment-5835</guid>
		<description>Hi Chris

nice speech. Today on boingboing I found this link: a speech by an MIT professor about how to give a good speech: http://overstated.net/2008/01/30/patrick-winston-how-to-speak

Have you chatted with Darius at the BLUG about the traffic topic? His job, afaiu, relates directly.

I think ideas 1 and 2 are gold. 3 (light buses): do you figure total pollution will increase or decrease?
4: doubt it would work. Drivers don&#039;t follow the road rules here at all in my limited experience. Why would they follow carpool lane rules?

Cheers
Ben</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Chris</p>
<p>nice speech. Today on boingboing I found this link: a speech by an MIT professor about how to give a good speech: <a href="http://overstated.net/2008/01/30/patrick-winston-how-to-speak" rel="nofollow">http://overstated.net/2008/01/30/patrick-winston-how-to-speak</a></p>
<p>Have you chatted with Darius at the BLUG about the traffic topic? His job, afaiu, relates directly.</p>
<p>I think ideas 1 and 2 are gold. 3 (light buses): do you figure total pollution will increase or decrease?<br />
4: doubt it would work. Drivers don&#8217;t follow the road rules here at all in my limited experience. Why would they follow carpool lane rules?</p>
<p>Cheers<br />
Ben</p>
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		<title>By: melanie gao</title>
		<link>http://www.cdrum.com/2008/02/19/a-4-point-plan-to-traffic-harmony/comment-page-1/#comment-5830</link>
		<dc:creator>melanie gao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 12:03:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cdrum.com/2008/02/19/a-4-point-plan-to-traffic-harmony/#comment-5830</guid>
		<description>Very good points.  I would add &quot;how about if we all follow the rules?&quot; - that would surely speed up the overall flow of traffic.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good points.  I would add &#8220;how about if we all follow the rules?&#8221; &#8211; that would surely speed up the overall flow of traffic.  <img src='http://www.cdrum.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: John Laich</title>
		<link>http://www.cdrum.com/2008/02/19/a-4-point-plan-to-traffic-harmony/comment-page-1/#comment-5825</link>
		<dc:creator>John Laich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 04:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cdrum.com/2008/02/19/a-4-point-plan-to-traffic-harmony/#comment-5825</guid>
		<description>They should have carpool lanes.  I think the &#039;light&#039; bus idea would be a hard sell in a country used to the idea of MASS transport.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They should have carpool lanes.  I think the &#8216;light&#8217; bus idea would be a hard sell in a country used to the idea of MASS transport.</p>
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